What's the Most Important Surround Speaker in Home Theater?
In this video, I discuss what I feel to be the most important surround speaker is in a typical 7.1.4 home theater speaker layout. We discuss the LCR’s, side surround, back surround, and 4 height channels along with recommendations to get the most enveloping surround experience for 2CH music upmixing and Dolby Atmos movie watching.
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Onkyo TX-RZ50 ($1,599): https://bit.ly/OnkyoTXZ50
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Polk R700 Tower Speakers: https://audioadvice.io/3C0TK2B
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Running 7.4.4 Denon X3800H 😊
in my listening room, I can’t put a surround on the left side because I have a bay window and on the right there is a door. how can I optimize? I have triad gold bipoles thx. thanks.
I have a bay window on the left and there is only the back wall to accommodate the surrounds. So my system is bad if I understand correctly.
Thanks for sharing, Gene. Appreciate your insight always valuable intel. From my experience 80% of movies are dialogue center channel most important. Cheers
Appreciate the knowledge and based on this video I have subscribed. I have spent quite a bit on LCR but sadly I admit I have skimped on my surrounds and rears. Any recommendations of rears and surrounds in the lower to midrange budgets?
I’ve learnt so much from you. Thank you for your channel and all the tremendous knowledge you share.
I have a 7.2.4 B&W speaker configuration driven by a Denon AVR-X8500HA in my living room. In my home theater I have a 7.1.4 Wharfdale layout with a REL sub, driven by a Marantz SR6015. Obviously room acoustics play a major role and I find the home theater setup more expressive and perfect for movie nights.
Both of my layouts were largely influenced by your advice and recommendations. Than you Gene.
Hey Gene, one love your videos, and two have a quick question on this older video you did.
Do you believe 821’s will be measurable difference vs the 760’s? Looking to get my sides to go with my 831R but wondering if it’s worth stepping up for the sides
7.1 surround without using the atmos, dts:x or auro 3d on my new Arcam AVR21 7.2.6. receiver yet. 4 B&W 707 s2 side and rear surrounds with no height channels purchased yet. Martin Logan 60xti towers in front, revel 226 performa center channel. bought different type spealers of good quality because of great used deals i found, and made purchase because of budget. HSU vtf 15 top of line subwoofer because of gene’s review on it in 2018. Sides and center are not yet properly placed yet because decent stands need to be purchased still. Work in progress. Do you recomment future Atmos 4 overhead speakers to buy soon, be bookshelfs mounted on proprietory swivel 180 degree mounts, Gene? ceiling screw in or hole cut modifications are not possible because i rent an apartment. Are 4 or 6 angled high side wall Atmos side and rear 4 likematin logan and many other like emotiva the best solution, Gene, or do you recommend good bookshelfs on swivel mounts instead, like a video on height chnnels i just saw from another youtube video i saw, ecommended? I trust your judgement far mor, Gene. but it was an idea i had not considered previously. So what do you recommend, Gene? Also, im really considering the ne top of the line Martin Logan f200 3 8inch woofer towers for bigger, deeper sound, with 27 hz bass response than my present ML front speakers. please do a review on the ML f200 sometime, so I can compare them to the ML f100 you and other reviewers have done already. i can’t find a review on the ML F200 towers yet. i listen to all music styles and movie blu ray types, sacd, dsd, hi rez, streaming, blu ray audio, cds, dvd audio. Am looking at higher end main towers like Arendal 1528 series, or Martin Logan f200 or Svs with increased mid, low mid, upper bass, mid bass, low bass response woih multiple woofers/ or midrange drivers, because i also want to listen to modern mid and bass heavy, heavy meatal music, detuned low guitar, and bass and drum metal music, and heaving, low end music of all types, in addition to al the classical, jazz, pop, classic rock, electronic, even rap i already listen to. Are the Arendal 1582 series noticably more detailed, complex, and resolving and higher quality than the new Matin Lpgan top of the line series? my budget is $5,500 to $9,500. Any advice from you Gene, is greatly appreciated. And I love your channel, videos, reviews, and approach to sound!
Do any receivers do Atmos up mixing? Or does that have to be done in software on the computer?
I suggest building from the inside out. Get the best center speaker you can afford, then L/R, sub, sides, then heights. A high quality center goes with everything.
Ninety percent of TV/movies is dialog and 90% of dialog comes out of the center speaker.
I have a Marantz Sr-7012 receiver with a Klipsch Reference system 5.3.4 and I use the Klipsch R 52-c center channel speakers for my top height, rear height and rear side surrounds and the center channel is a Klipsch RP450-c which is a larger center channel which is elevated to ear height. The 2 subwoofers are SVS SB-3000 and one is a SVS SB1000. I believe two of the best movies to experience the great surround effects are Top Gun Maverick and Gravity. The 52-C makes a great surround speaker!
The most important is the quality of the speaker wire
1) The speaker you can’t afford
2) The speaker with zero WAF
3) The speaker that doesn’t fit
@Audioholics — What would 10.4.8 sound like? Would any movies even be able to use that configuration? Or 12.6.10?
And what about players/streamers and receivers/processors, would they be able to handle that many channels?
if i only have 5.1, should i place them more behind me? i den get (at least when playing gvideogames, sound directly behind me aswell. i get 360 audio, where as if i were to put them in front of me to the sides, i would think i am unable to get true surround 360, and would then have to have a 7. setup? thx:D
FORGET A CENTER CHANNEL THAT IS OLD SCHOOL ANALOG THINKING GO WITH A SENNHEISER AMBEO MAX SOUNDBAR .
I can never figure out why Dolby Labs puts a high emphasis on rear speaker placements.
When you go to a movie theatre why is it they always have speakers located along both sides of the wall? Not only that many are so big in space it’s pointless to have any at the back of the wall. I think Imax does it I don’t remember. When I go to Imax and Dolby Cinema most of the sound is sides and front.
When I go to a movie theater I look around to see how close I am to the nearest surround speakers.
From my movie going experience I like having left and right side speakers.
Nobody is going to believe me on this but having surround speakers placed in the front stage of the room is also so much better and will bring even a far better listening experience in Dolby Atmos.
Watching sports from the front stage surround speakers is a whole different experience for the better. At one time I didn’t have them. Then when I added Vizio 1 way speakers on my front wall I got a good listening experience that filled my room with better sound. Then recently I added 2 channel bookshelf speakers. That made a huge difference to front stage that I didn’t hear from my 1 way speakers. So again watching sports like college football where your hearing everthing out of a stadium.
I have a door and a big window that doesn’t make for side locations so the front mounted location was my only option.
Just watching youtube videos with the YouTuber is just talking with a recorded background music. I hear far more music clarity from the bookshelf speakers from the walls and everything else coming from main channels from the soundbar.
Hi, Gene. Excellent video, thank you so much for the info! Grimani says surrounds should be at 100 degrees while my understanding is that you’re recommending 80 degrees for optimal placement (for a single row), have your views changed on the subject over the last two years or do you still believe 80 degrees is ideal? Thanks!!
Great information as always. Do you have a location recommendations for bipole surrounds in a 5.1.4 setup? It’s a small media room, with the couch about a foot away from the back wall. Appreciate any feedback you might have!
The surrounds are the most important surrounds, lol. My rear surrounds don’t do nearly as much as the surrounds. I run 6 towers (2 RP8000s and 4 RP5000s) and an RP504C center. I have a set of RP600Ms and just got the Cinema 30 so I’m expanding to 9.3.4 this weekend. Can’t wait!
I agree that the ear level surrounds need more respect but I disagree that they need to be the same quality as the LCR.
Dolby Atmos says that the surrounds need to play lower than 90 Hz if there are subwoofers.
———
source=Apple Music
For those who don’t believe him get two speakers and put them about 2 feet away from your ears and play a dynamic demo or music track. The stereo effect alone is atmos level immersion.
thank you very much
So lemme see… You built a purpose built room only to leave your acoustic treatment and speakers as surface mounts? Wtf.
Your wallet. The bigger and better ur surrounds in ALL locations, the more you feel encased in atmospheric sound. Watch any submarine movie with large quality surrounds vs small crappy ones. You need those lower octaves in ur surrounds.
I enjoyed the 4 second stare at the end of the video.
Bought my first surround speaker system from a friend and yeah realised how important the center is cause the jamo s81 was just ”ok” so have to def upgrade that one and in time upgrade the front speakers and put the front canton mx to the sides and have 7.1 , the heco 12 inch sub im more then happy with. God damn already after two weeks im thinking about upgrading This will turn out expensive just like my Photography passion 😂
Hello Gene, thank you for the great info. I have a set up that can be configured 5.2.4 or 7.2.2. In your opinion, which is better for immersive movie watching. Mind you that the two ceiling rear atmos is what would be converted to rears for bed layer in the 7.2.2. The rears would not be at ear level.
Side channels are Mirage Omnisat OS3. This is because I can’t put enough distance to them so I don’t want direct audio towards the ears from too close to the ears
Other than a center definitely the rear speakers
Recently moved my "back speakers" to the sides, because of this video. I didn’t know it would make that big a difference. It’s does and it’s great. I’d be interested in your thoughts on weather using 8 ohms front speakers with 6 ohms satellite speakers really makes a difference, for lower priced receivers and speakers (Yamaha and Klipsh/Jamo). Thanks.
I agree. The rears are the grandeur, but the sides provide the details.
Center channel man
I’m still rocking 5.1 with some old Mission bipoles i just picked up, 20+ years old and they still sound amazing.
The thing is, because you consume audio as if drinking a bottle of wine sometimes you’re inconsiderate (when talking) to your fans at the lower end (low budget) of the spectrum. I only have a set of Bookshelf speakers plus a centre speaker. Are these not sufficient dude as the basic? I’m a novice by the way.
I’ve combined these with duo svs sb3000s.
With respect to
In a 5.1 system is there a way to have two speakers on each for the side channels (side left and side right )
What should we look for when trying to match speakers or tone match speakers and what do we look at on spec sheets and what do the spec sheets tell us ?
For me I have been using 5.1 for well over 20 years. All of my speakers are well over 20 years old and I have only changed out the Receiver. The speakers don’t even match and I get along fine. Perhaps I don’t have any frame of reference for what a SO CALLED proper set up would sound like with more speakers, however, I have been to the movie theater a million times, and for all of the DOLBY ATMOS GIMMICKS and whatnot they pitch to charge more for tickets, I don’t notice a damn thing. I just go to enjoy the show. I am not sitting their trying to pick up on which surround sound speaker just kicked in. More often than not, I find professionally calibrated Movie Theater Sound systems are too LOUD and too HARSH on the ears. The biggest problem with all of these systems is the cost is an arm and a leg. Unless you have really efficient speakers and a smaller room, you end up having to bi amp beyond your receiver and everything is too expensive these days. It gets overwhelming.
I find it interesting in this video with everything listed you did not listen tge revels in the speaker listing
Very insightful and I’ve found the same thing with side channels and music and always thought that it was because as humans our ears are designed to pay.attention to the sides as our vision takes in front duty.
You watch Star Trek!? 😊😊
I’ve rarely seen surrounds recommended for front lateral placement. Pushing back the surrounds to the usual 110 degrees may help spread the field and you may relish ducking the occasional bullet whiz by from behind. The operational word is "occasional." This placement is far from optimal. Harman and Canada’s NRC research has consistently demonstrated the benefit of a post-10 millisecond delay "reflection" coming in from an angle as acute as 60 degrees. Instead of occasional exhilaration, "reflection" from the front lateral field will improve the clarity, body, intelligibility and richness of each and every note played or word spoken ALL of the time. And I can live with the occasional bullet whizzing from the lateral-front instead of lateral-back. Gene’s advice goes against conventional wisdom, and it is spot-on. Well done.
Were should the surround L/R speakers be placed if it’s 5.1.4 and what would be the hieght you would suggest
Hi Gene, what if for example your using two rows of seats in your home theater, what inputs on your Marantz AV10 would you then use for an additional set of side surounds for say a 9.2.4 Atmos set up?
Would the additional side surrounds be used as "FRONT WIDES" as inputs on the Marantz AV10?
Thank you for this. I have an AVR that can go beyond 5.1, but wanted to know what to add next after the 3.1 that I have now set up at the moment in the living room. (I have dual subs so I guess it’s a 3.2) Your video makes a lot of sense. Do you think that most movie mixes (and onboard up mixing) also have more signal presence going to the sides, versus the rears? (And this adds to our ability to "feel" more enveloped by the sound output of sides?)
I also want to add to a setup I’m putting together in an home office / guest bedroom – stereo w/ sub, but eventually wanting more speakers (5.1 maximum). I have a nice integrated amp and fronts for 2 channel in the office. For budget reasons, I’m considering a Schitt Syn to do multi channel audio processing for smart TV viewing (adding other speakers). It’s hard finding a 5.1 AVR with pre-outs and AVR’s that are more channeled (to get the pre-outs) are not budget friendly for me.
Didn’t know if you had any insight to the Schitt Audio Syn product (it’s $300).
Thank you for any input you can share.
Gene.. I fully agree your vie about the surrounds.. same importance tobe given as we give toLCR..multi ch. music listening will prove this..
Just got the Arendal 1528 Center.. Definitely made a big difference compared to my 1723s center..and that center was awesome
I am running 5.2.4 in my apartment given I have limited space so I have no room for rear speakers. So I placed a better bookshelf now for my sides instead. I cant wait to try later tonight. Thanks Gene.
Would you still recommend bipole speakers for 2 row seating in the null between the seats? I know you used to have a setup like this. This will move the side surrounds back behind the MLP but Im concerned it will be too far off axis.